Southern UK Jive

[Steve]

It's been well over a year since Ceroc returned to the local area. Having transformed The Hub, Newbury, Wilton and various other freestyles from underattended to 'sold out'. Even Minstead, which once Mojive took it to twice a month, never 'sold out' as far as I can remember has reached that point (at EOM). In terms of numbers it could only be considered a success.

Personally, I think it's a vast improvement that we have franchises whose owners actually seem to have an interest in the dance (do weekenders, go to events outside their franchise etc.). And also offer a progression path to those who want it ('proper' intermediate lessons, workshops with 'name' teachers, masterclasses, weekenders, private lessons etc.).

I also like that fact that innovation appears to have returned. Small extras/changes at freestyles, masterclasses at Barton, Twisted at Newbury etc.

After watching over a decade of local independants supply about as much innovation as a puddle, I find this change only for the good.

However, I am aware that some find this change... threatening. Anti-Ceroc posts are easy to find on this forum along with comments belittling the extra choices and changes Ceroc has brought in.

So this poll is find out whether Ceroc really is the 'enemy within', or whether people are glad to finally to be offered a choice to Mojive and it's various clones.

Vote Now !
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My local WCS dance guide: http://www.southernjive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726

[Southern Jiver]

That's a tricky one, Steve. Your poll is just too cut 'n dried, or black and white and I don't think it's that easy. Yes, I do agree with most of what you say in terms of the popularity of the venues etc but I think there has been a general resurgence of popularity with Jiving in general throughout the area and you will find many of the independent organisations with sold out venues also. Of course, you could say that the Independents have been forced to pull up their socks as the giant megalith of dance organisations has expanded into the area in a big way but then I supoose that isn't a bad thing. The only worry I have is that Ceroc is so large in terms of sheer resources and so dominating that it could choose to swallow the Independents one by one. That would not be a "good thing". I have no wish to see the weekend freestyle choices as Ceroc only. In summary, faced with the baldness of your question, and with the provisos above, I would have to say "yes", it's a "good thing".
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"We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance."
~Japanese Proverb

[Enigma]

This could be a fun topic...

I say it's a good thing Ceroc incorporates a bit more style variety and is generally more open minded when new trends come along than the independents.

One thing i will say is that people view Ceroc as a big machine bent on world domination and the elimination of all other providers. They seem to forget that it is franchise based, made up of many smaller bits. I do appreciate that it is not so simple, but were all the independent providers to decide on using one name would that make them so threatening?

And if they are so terrible, why did DYD open a venue on the same night in close proximity to two Ceroc events...?

Ceroc is a good thing. Let the fireworks begin!

[Steve]

Well, you can always break any question down into the details. Not everything about Ceroc is great I agree

Regarding the independants, I have no idea about their numbers, but my perception is I mostly see a redistribution rather than an increase, for example, two years ago (very roughly) DYD were getting 100 at Totton, and Mojive 200, now that's reversed, DYD are getting 200, and Mojive 100. Add the year on year small increase that does usually happen, and I can't see any great increase myself. But I admit I don't attend that many independant events these days, so my perception may be wrong.

Which leads to that favourite claim you hear a lot from those wishing to paint Ceroc in a bad light, the one that Ceroc will swallow up all the independants. Quite how that worry marries with the idea that independants numbers are higher than ever I'm not sure, but that claim is just bizarre anyway. There isn't one area of the country where Ceroc operates that isn't full of independants.

And when you really get down to it, the ones that decide which nights will be a success and which will fail are the punters. The likes of us. Given a choice, people will vote with their feet if any organsation isn't giving them what they want. Any independant that offers either something different, or something good has nothing to worry about.
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My local WCS dance guide: http://www.southernjive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726

[Andy McGregor]

[Andy McGregor]

[Steve]

Pretty much agree with all of that Andy.

The weekender market, I doubt that really affects peoples perception of Ceroc's integrity out in the wider MJ world. As I understand it, and putting aside all the rumour, essentially Pontins asked for tenders and you can invent all the excuses under the sun, but in reality Ceroc just outbid the others.

That's what happens in business. And given that both Jive Addiction and Jivetime still run weekenders, and completely new independant entries to the weekender market are still popping up, obviously that wasn't fatal.



Regarding who is independant and who isn't, not going to argue about it. It's generally accepted that Ceroc is the big boy, and so to make it easy to identify alternatives to Ceroc, they are sometimes, as in this post, labelled as the independants. That is the accepted general usage... but I think you know that


In-de-pen-dent ?
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My local WCS dance guide: http://www.southernjive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726

[Nicky]

Great topic Steve!

I have been going to the same dance venue for the past 3/4 years; initially run by Mojive it is now under the Ceroc umbrella.

When Ceroc first came to the venue I was over the moon....The classes, which had been dumbed down by Mojive, suddenly became more interesting and challenging, and it was a delight to hear completely different tracks being played alongside some of the more familiar ones. In short, it was a much needed breath of fresh air.

Now, whilst I still feel that Ceroc nights are a big improvement on the Mojive nights, I think it's well known on this forum that I do have a huge problem with the way in which they seem to recruit their teachers and demos....

We have some excellent teachers who are experienced dancers with a good stage presence..... Richard P and Heather for example...However, there appears to be an influx of very pleasant but inexperienced young people who are being/have been trained up to be teachers. No doubt I will be shouted down over this, (yet again! ), but I do find it difficult to understand how somebody who is themselves fairly new to dancing, can have much to draw on when preparing a class...But hey, i'll be more than happy to be proved wrong! Time will tell

Steve wrote:

[Mike J]

The only good thing, is that it has made us try out other venues which we have found to be better and more enjoyable. We now regularly go to smaller jives, which we never would have done if Ceroc had not killed the pavillion, So I guess it is a good thing.

[drunkenjiver]

My opinion on this subject is solely based on the local franchises in my area,Ceroc live,different Ceroc franchises perform better than others,Ceroc fever by all accounts are excellent,but I have been so dissapointed in Ceroc Live,I can`t actually be bothered to try any of the others so maybe I am missing out on something,but as said solely on my experiences of Ceroc Live I would say generaly they are no better or worse than Mo Jive were,but lets face it anybody could fill the pavillion solely because it is the place to be seen & the Hub although a lot better than when Mo Jive had it,is overpopulated because of sheer greed,so I vote no
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[danceitup!]

Any franchise is a bad thing. You never get the quality or customer care you would get from a privately run organisation.
The hub is only busy because it is a good hall. Whoever ran that venue would have made a success of it once the word was out.

[Mops]

Out of interest danceitup, how many ceroc franchises have you been to, which franchises/nights were these?
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Dance with you heart, and your feet will follow.

[danceitup!]

ooh... where do I start... Of recent Pavillion, Hub, Hamworthy, but as I lived in London until a couple of years ago I spent 8 years on the jive scene up there as well as going further a field in my younger days.

[Olly]

Danceitup! said

[Nicky]

Danceitup! wrote: