Southern UK Jive

[Steve]

My rant of the month.

Firstly, I should say this has been a slow-burner for me. It's not been triggered by one single event, more a accumulation of events of the last few years.
Also, I am not talking about bad nights per se, but nights which are sub-standard due to something going wrong or not being "of a quality for dancing".

Many nights are fantastic, the vast majority in fact, and some organisers are well known for 'trying to put things right' on the rare occasions it goes wrong, but....

The occasional night is sub-standard, and the occasional organiser will just take the money and run.


Some problems you could argue are beyond the organisers ability to fix, for example, if the roof caves in. However, at the end of the day, it's the organiser who takes our money and is solely responsible to us for delivering a "product fit for purpose". For us, the buck stops with them.

The examples below are completely made up.

One example, the record player blows up. The organiser is completely responsible for this and a good organiser will have a backup, or at least darn quick access to a backup. Should the nights have to be abandoned due to this, I would expect full compensation to be made.
Even if organisers rips his/her car portable record player out or something and the night limps on with terrible sound quality, IMO some form of compensation should be made just because a sub-standard night was inflicted on the customers.

More difficult is where the organiser can only have limited affect, for example, the quality of the floor. But even here, the organiser is where the buck stops for us (the venue may have a responsibility to the organiser, but that's a different issue). So even with, say a beer barrel cracking, floor flooding and a quick cleanup but leaving a nasty floor, in the end, the organiser takes responsibility for delivering "the product" which has become sub-standard due to a bad floor. It might not be a full refund, maybe the 'sub-standardness' only warrants a half price entry to next months event or something, but I personally would expect some sort of compensation to be made.

Yet it rarely is. In the past, I have had nights ruined by terrible floors that actually left my knees feeling like they were shredded the next morning. Painful and unpleasant. Other floors that were outright dangerous due to liquid floods, bad varnish/polishing or alternate activities. I have had evenings ruined by afflictions to the sound quality, I have had evenings cut short by power cuts and one or two other differing events.

Now you could argue that if you can move your feet in any way to any form of sound, then a "Product fit for purpose" has been delivered, but I truly do believe when things do occasionally go wrong, some effort at compensation should be made.

Instead, some organisers treat us like cattle fobbing us off when a sub-standard night occurs with no attempt made at recompense.

Dudes and dudettes, It Ain't Right

[/End rant]
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My local WCS dance guide: http://www.southernjive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726

[lilblue]

Of course we don't live in a 'me, me, me' culture. This attitude does make me a little cross, but then I'm just a country girl.

I assume this rant refers to (amongst others) the Pavillion being double booked, Minsteads dirty floor night, Romsey's sticky evening etc etc.

These things are beyond the control of the organisers, they damage reputations and quite frankly I feel it is rather petty to expect the organisers to bear an additional burden in an attempt to placate the people they are organising for. I wouldn't dream of attempting to put together a freestyle . After all how many nights out cost £8 (with concessions and offers too)? Festivals, nightclubs, a meal at a gastropub all cost way more in the first place. The only one of these likely to 're-imburse' a customer is the pub, they might give you a free pudding. Or they might not.

The point is, things will go wrong at some point. It just happens.

[Jiveonaut]

It does depend on what goes wrong, but with some positive thought cock-ups and disasters can wind up as the catalyst for memorable nights out. I remember once at Wilton helping set up a week-night class at half eight at night (KO at 8....), because the blood donors (Give Blood!!!!) took an age to depart the hall after they'd been there during the day. The customers who arrived to beds being pushed out and stereos being pushed in to the Michael Herbert Hall nearly all pitched in to help, carrying stuff, setting up tables etc, and really enjoyed themselves. It turned out to be a cracking icebreaker and team building exercise.

I don't recognise the picture being painted on this and another recent string of some venue managers/franchise owners displaying Mr Burns-like attitudes and treating their clients like muppets. I'm also picking up the Ceroc bad others good thing, which is cobblers. They may be different but neither are immune to public opinion. Also, in the case of Ceroc, the Ceroc HQ in London will drop on them from a great height if they really do consistently fall short of the standards the franchise imposes on the franchise owner, an added pressure that perhaps smaller independents don't have.

In my experience ALL venues are very keen to sort things out, and really do take on board critiques and concerns from their customers. Its in their interests too. But really I can't see how else you can handle sub standard issues except on by a case by case basis. If speaking to the staff on the night can't sort a matter within their control then, as Tee Dee said on here somewhere else , a well worded, polite email (rudeness is not necessary and often counter-productive, and yet people do tend to say things electronically that they would never say face to face) will normally get things sorted OR explain why it went wrong and what is happening to sort it (which may take time). I've done it myself, within the last 12 months, to a Ceroc franchise and it worked a treat. Problem solved, everyone happy. Its when things don't change and repeat themselves again and again that I do start to have sympathy with the feet-voting party.

If its outside the venue's control, its usually (a) obvious (fire, flood, powercut, rubbish floor etc) and/or (b) a one off or something the venue will push really hard to sort for the next time. So bear with them!

While afore-mentioned gastro pub MAY give you a free pudding, most venues round here ARE providing free tea/coffee/cakes/lollies/muffins/milkshakes (delete as appropriate!)......
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Words are good, but hens lay eggs.

[Steve]

[Steve]

[lilblue]

[Steve]

[Nicky]

Having just read this thread, I was overcome by a sudden need to make a few comments!

I feel that, having made some legitimate remarks, Steve appears to be having accusations of "Ceroc bashing" hurled at him, quite unfairly in my opinion. I've re-read his post several times and can find no mention whatsoever of any particular organiser or venue.

All of us are quite within our rights to expect to be presented with a venue "fit for purpose" when we attend any dance night. Likewise, we would naturally assume that the sound system will be up to the job. We all hand over our money, some of us having travelled a fair distance, with certain expectations. When these expectations aren't met, i'm sure that every one of us has a moan!

I personally believe in tackling any problem there and then, and have done so on several occasions. That way, if there is a way of making things better, all well and good. As long as I feel that an effort has been made to rectify the problem, I wouldn't expect an organiser to offer any compensation.

However, there are certain things that any organiser can and should be held responsible for. A poorly maintained and presented floor is one of them! The best music being played and hoards of fantastic dancers being present can never make an evening good if the floor is bad. No organiser worth his/her salt should use any venue without first checking that the floor is suitable for dancers. An occasional sticky floor at a regular venue is one thing, a floor that is always dodgy is, as far as i'm concerned, unacceptable....If the floor cannot be presented as fit for dancing, find another venue!

Before I am accused of being "anti-Ceroc", I would like to say that the only floor that I have had cause to complain about is the one at Totton. Yes, the venue was used by Ceroc for a short while, but they worked hard to make sure it was fit to dance on everytime that they used it. I go to numerous Ceroc venues on a regular basis, and have attended every Ceroc weekender so far this year....Anti I most definately am not!

In short, the only compensation that I would expect for most problems would be an assurance that things will be put right, and every effort made to ensure that it doesn't arise again. If, however, I drove for an hour only to find a venue closed for the night, yes, compensation should be made....I believe that Richard B did exactly that by offering free entry to the Pavilion the week following the unexpected closure of the venue.

I personally feel that most organisers in this area do their very best to ensure that their paying customers have a great night. They are happy to listen and act when a problem arises...What more can we ask?!!

[Jiveonaut]

I'm certainly NOT having a pop at Steve. I'd also agree that Steve has very deliberately avoided going down the Ceroc v others route and I'm not accusing anyone else on this thread of being anti-ceroc, because they're patently not. If my previous post came over as that, then I apologise.

I wrote it after reading a couple of other threads on this, where in my opinion there is some ceroc v the rest going on, after a 5 hour drive and the Skeggie weekender. I may have been a bit tired.......... Ceroc is not perfect, neither are other orgs, and its right that we should discuss these things on this forum. What i don't like is the yah boo sucks position taking that does exist on this forum. And no, i have no vested interest in ceroc - I have just had the fortune to have learnt to dance and have a great life through ceroc, and a natural inclination against SUBJECTIVE invective about most things.

I now think, after a good night's sleep, that everyone on this thread is actually in agreement with everyone else! We want issues sorted, either on the spot, by email, or by action, aren't happy when they're not (or at least a good reason provided). S**t happens, its called life - sometimes things are out of the venue's control, but yes sometimes it is in their control and if they don't do anything about it AFTER talking and emailmng/writing, to the customers satisfaction, then what should the customer do? Good one, i don't know, apart from not go back.
Interestingly, I haven't heard of anyone ever getting a refund for a really pants night. I have heard of venues dishing out free entries for future events as , I suppose, a gesture of good will.
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Words are good, but hens lay eggs.

[Nicky]

Jiveonaut, I think we most definately are all pretty like minded, as far as this thread is concerned.

I have spoken to the staff at various venues when problems have arisen, and have only once had a negative reaction. Interestingly enough, that was on a Mojive night at Totton. I have also sent emails when a problem has persisted, and am pleased to say have always had a positive response. A polite approach as opposed to a spewing rant always works wonders!

Jiveonaut wrote:

[DJ Andy]

[lilblue]

I think perhaps, as Jiveonaut says, the impression of Ceroc bashing was created by the general feeling on the forum, and the fact that Steve actively puts emphasis on the word 'some' in his last sentence about organisers. Given a weekender and general lack of sleep I don't think it's hard to see where the link may have come from!

I also agree with the comments about resolution of problems - we all want to see hosts trying to do something to rectify a situation as much as they can. I think I'm lucky being able to say that I've not yet had a night out where if something goes wrong the staff haven't tried to do anything about it. Lucky me !

And DJ Andy - that's really generous, and good to know!