Southern UK Jive

Nigel · Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 2:47 pm Post subject: The Law - Legal Noise Limit

The Law - Legal Noise Limit As of January 2009
For all those who complained about the excess volume at Ceroc Venues (Bournemouth Thursday night) I did get an email reply to my email Friday morning. Volume level should not reach last evenings ear distroying level again... It will be monitored......!

Ceroc Live & Ceroc Fever received emails from me & I received replies from BOTH...... Who should now make their organisations aware of the legal noise limit & Ihope stay below it.

It would not be politically correct for me to post the emails - one group claimed that they make very little proffit and can hardly afford to replace failing speakers that were blamed for the distorted & ear damaging noise.

Call me a cinic if you like - a sound db meter and new speakers cost far less than the Statutory fine.

Ok soum venues must run at less than others but we can all do simple maths 200 people @ £7 a hall that cost next to nothing with regular hire and staff that get paid ? peanuts, how many venues? & we get told there is no prifit..!

Iwill leave it at that & wait to see if the volume is regulated.............
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Keep Smiling Keep Dancing Nigel.

TeeDee · Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 3:06 pm Post subject:

Nigel · Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 3:23 pm Post subject:

No I have not run a venue - I have no intention of running a venue..!
But hey if there was on gain then Ceroc, LeRock, The Thing, MoJive & all the others would not continue.

200 x £7 = £1400

The overheads are not the large portion are they. And if you average the good nights with the bad nights, if you only run 4 nights a week.......

I rest that quote.

Instead of picking that as a quote I think you should have looked at the Noise Limit because that is the issue with this. When it is a social evening people do not want to have to shout at their partner "DO YOU WANT TO DANCE" "WHAT"................
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Keep Smiling Keep Dancing Nigel.

TeeDee · Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 4:39 pm Post subject:

What venue/organization in the South Central attracts 200 people 4 nights a week?!

Anyway - noise limits - I agree with you that you don't want to be competing with the music or walking away with yur ears bleeding.

Most venues that I've been to get the balance right. In fact, thinking about it, I can't actually remember ever thinking or complaining to myself about music being too loud. Goes without saying that I wasn't at Bournemouth on the night in question...
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qdos · Frequent Poster Joined: 17 Feb 2009 Posts: 195

Nigel is right. The volume at Bournemouth has been at stupid levels and I used to worry about my hearing whilst there.

Many places I've been to have warning lights fitted which go on when dB levels get too high and I'm surprised that the Pavilion does not have them in the ballroom. However it's really quite simple to get volumes sensible. Can people talk to one another either whilst dancing or whilst sat out.

Often at the Pavilion you couldn't and it's one of the reasons it lost it's buzz and why people say it's not a very friendly place.

I know it's the DJ who sets the volume and as there's basically none at the Pavilion anymore its hardly surprising the volume is out of control there.

Michael H · Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:40 pm Post subject:

Nigel, Nigel, Nigel. Be very careful - as you dont know what "can of worms" you could be opening!
We danced at Romsey the other night and the level set by the Local Authority was far, far too low. They had a system which cut the power if the level was exceeded for 30 secs. Madness - but thats the "level of control" that the nutty, lets spoil everyones enjoyment, control freaks love.
The other thing that was wrong was that the sound was not clear - if thats what is happening at the Pavilion then that needs to be addressed first - and noise meters should never be suggested by lovers of dance!!!
Michael & Janice

Nigel · Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 8:02 pm Post subject:

OK let us be realistic........

The legal level is there to protect our hearing.

The limit is 3 foot in fornt of the speakers not 3 foot from the back of the room.

"Hey if we have speakers at the back of the room as well as the front of the room, then the level legal limit is all across the room."

I know I have not just invented surround sound; but it is the logical answer - without exceeding the limit and without causing the ears to burst.

If anyone has a better idea then feel free to open as many cans of worms as you like with the legal authorities.

Please do not shoot me for defending the ears of all those who had to suffer the stupidity of those that do not understand the law or care of others health and hearing.
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Keep Smiling Keep Dancing Nigel.

Nigel · Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 8:08 pm Post subject:

Further to my last - If you love dancing then dance - you do not need the music to be so loud that it hurts and your ears ring for several hours after.

Same principle - "You do not need to get drunk to enjoy yourself."

If one thinks I am wrong "SORRY"

But it is a social event; and if you can not socalise without having to shout at the person stood next to you, then there is a problem that needs addressing.
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Keep Smiling Keep Dancing Nigel.

qdos · Frequent Poster Joined: 17 Feb 2009 Posts: 195

Nigel you're absoloutely right. Now I do happen to like good music played loud but in it's place i.e at the gig with the band live. But that's kind of why you go to a gig and get right up at the front next to the stage.

If you go to a dance then you go to socialise too and that means you should be able to hear people talking especially when you're sat out. All too often you can't at the Pavilion. Now if you go to other venues that's not the case. in fact some you can talk with your dance partner whilst dancing Shocked

The trouble with the folk at the Pavilion is that they don't realise the sound travels forwards and consequently whilst they may think they are quiet on the stage out on the floor everyone's deafened because the stage is behind the speakers which are placed out on the floor. I've spoken to them on several ocassions about it and to be fair it was often also MoJive who'd deafen us there too not just Ceroc.

Nigel · Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 9:31 pm Post subject:

Yes, I also had my say at MoJive.
I trust it is not just me - because I have raised the same issue at other venues in the past.

Example:
When Hamworthy was orignially used for these events, a few years ago now; when visiting the toilets, all that could be heard was the local radio playing through the Hamworthy P.A. system.

Then we went through a period of only being able to hear the Jive venue music boomimg over everything.

It was blamed on the new equipment at the time. (Yeh right)

Der... Did not need a degree to realise that on entry to the venue I had to shout so that the Door person could shout back to say "hello / good evening".

So much for the Legal Limit then..... Now once again I am pleased to say that attention has been paid to Limit and a certain amount of respect to the Club members in the bar next to the venue; who wish to watch TV or drink without risk of ear damage or should I say hearing damage.
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Keep Smiling Keep Dancing Nigel.

Michael H · Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 11:52 am Post subject:

Sorry Nigel, but you are exagerating when you say the sound levels will damage our hearing - they are well below that level. You should go out clubbing where the levels are much higher.

The point we were making - which you appear to have missed - is that the control of sound levels which are now within the control of the dance organisers, and to an extent therefore within our (the dancers) control, will be taken away by some "health and safety" crackpot. As you can see nigh on daily from the newspapers these control mad freaks will do anything to spoil peoples enjoyment on the merest whim.

We now have recourse to the organisers if anything is not right, but we will have no recourse whatsoever if noise limiters are put in.

Go to the next Romsey freestyle and see what we mean.

PS "People go to socialize" - sorry they go to dance. Socializing is a secondary issue.

Michael & Janice

Olly · Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:46 pm Post subject:

Have to agree with Michael here.

As a local operator I personally have never had a complaint about excessive noise at any of our venues and I would like to think that most organisers are sensible over the situation. We are very mindful of the fact that excessive noise is both an H&S issue and also anti-social.

Two of our venues do have limiters built in but we have no problem in providing sufficient sound for the whole dance floor, which I know is not the case with all venues that have them. Also, limiters that I have come across are sensitive to bass tones which vary depending on the amount of people in the room. I have shown limiters to be sent into the'danger' zone in rooms at relatively low volume levels with bass notes.

Nigel said

TeeDee · Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 4:06 pm Post subject:

I'm glad someone else has picked up on the "simple maths" comment.

To be honest, I don't like to waste to much of my time on such comments - hence my rather short responses made before, but you're dead right Olly.

I find that the people who are blessed with such skills as "simple maths" are quite often those that make 2 plus 2 equal to 5.

Or, taking you're iceberg analogy, they'd make it more like 32 (approx 12.5% of an iceberg is visible above the water!)

I'm still interested for Nigel to let us all know which venue/organization gets 200 people 4 nights a week - Bet a lot of us would like to know that one! Wink

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Nicky · Forum legend Joined: 22 Feb 2009 Posts: 401

I have a friend who started up a jive class several years ago. He was lucky enough to find a hall that was fairly reasonable to hire, but still had to invest in all the equipment needed in order to run such a class: a decent sound system, music, advertising, insurance....

He did everything he could possibly do to make a go of it, but had to call it quits after 2 years.... Two years effort to just about break even!

I have to say that I personally have never been present at any venue, locally or otherwise, where i've felt that the volume has been excessive.

Michael H wrote:

Jasper · Casual Poster Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 23

Well.. Here comes my 2 cents...
I have been a D.J for many years working in pubs and clubs and I can tell you that last time I went to the Pavillion, the volumn was far too high and the sound was awful. You should not come away with ringing ears, that causes permanent damage, so I am 100% behind Nigel with that one. Infact, i haven`t been to the Pavillion since that night back in January. I was sat at the back of the room and still couldn`t hear people on my table talk.
I have to also say a big NO to sound limiters though. These really are a pain in the butt. I did a kids party a few years back and the power cut off when everyone sang happy Birthday as it sensed the music was too loud!
It should be down to the organisers to keep the sound under control and that didn`t happen when I was last at the Pavillion. As for Ceroc not making enough money to buy a decent set of speakers? Then maybe you need to sell up to someone who could make a success out of such an prime venue.