Southern UK Jive

[Southern Jiver]

Taken from www.dance-card.com :

You mean "Blues" is a dance? Yes, it is. In fact, it is an entire family of several dances (such as the "Slow Drag" and the "Fishtail") that are aesthetically, culturally and musically connected.

Like Swing dance, Blues dance originated and evolved from African rhythms and movements. However, Blues dancing was never widely practiced as a "social" or performance dance in the United States outside of the Black communities; so it developed and thrived in smoky juke joints and at Blues house parties and rent parties, giving it a more intimate feel.

Because Blues dancing lacked wider social approval and appeal, it remained strongly entrenched in African principles of movement, not only in the motion of the hips, but in the characteristic creation of, and dancing within, a boundary.

Blues dance is strongly tied to Blues music, and many aspects of Blues dancing (for example, call and response, emotional intensity, and tension and release) are directly related to the music to which it is danced. There are many types of Blues music (rural, urban, up-tempo, slow, electric, delta, modern), and also many types of Blues dance, all with very different nuances and emotions.

Early Blues dances often contained very simple one-step or two-step patterns; some examples of such early Blues dances are the "Cake Walk" and the "Black Bottom." Other Blues dances such as the "Slow Drag" and the "Mooche" have also been passed down to us relatively unchanged from the original forms. In its modern context, Blues dance incorporates many aspects of these original dances as well as incorporating ideas from modern concepts of partner connection, improvisation, and natural body movement.

Blues is also an emotion that you bring to your dancing. Blues dance, like most Black vernacular dances, enables intense individuality in expressing the music, emphasizing that the music, not the dancer, leads the dance; the dancer is simply the interpreter. Blues dance demonstrates the passion of the entire range of human emotions - from sadness to joy - not just sensuality. If you don't have a visceral reaction to the music, your partner, and the environment, then you are missing the true beauty of Blues dance.

Some observers and dancers who have not studied Blues dance other than by simple observation often overlook the nuances of the dance. To their eyes, the sensual appearance of the dance may overshadow its basis and structure. Blues dance at its best is rooted in subtle physical communication and connection between your partner, yourself, and the music and therefore is almost impossible to learn to execute well simply by watching.

Learning to Blues dance enables the dancer to more fully understand dance concepts such as simplicity, clarity, creativity, expression, intensity, and musical and emotional interpretation that are critical to advanced social dancing of any kind.
_________________
"We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance."
~Japanese Proverb

[Southern Jiver]

Copied this from another Forum :

Q. What happens if you play blues music backwards?
A. Your wife returns to you, your dog comes back to life, and you get out of prison.

---------------------------------

HOW TO SING THE BLUES

1. Most blues begin "woke up this morning . . . ."

2. "I got a good woman" is a bad way to begin the blues, unless you stick something nasty in the next line.

I got a good woman--
with the meanest dog in town.

3. Blues are simple. After you have the first line right, repeat it. Then find something that rhymes. Sort of.

Got a good woman
with the meanest dog in town.
He got teeth like Margaret Thatcher
and he weighs about 500 pounds.

4. The blues are not about limitless choice.

5. Blues cars are Chevys and Cadillacs. Other acceptable blues transportation are a Greyhound bus or a southbound train. "Walkin'" plays a major part in the blues lifestyle. So does "fixin' to die."

6. Teenagers can't sing the blues. Adults sing the blues. Blues adulthood means old enough to get the electric chair if you shoot a man in Memphis.

7. You can have the blues in New York City, but not in Brooklyn or Queens. Hard times in Vermont or North Dakota are just a depression. Chicago, St. Louis, and Kansas City are still the best places to have the blues

8. The following colors do not belong in the blues:
a. violet
b. beige
c. mauve
d. taupe

9. You can't have the blues in an office or a shopping mall, because the lighting is all wrong.

10. Good places for the Blues:
a. the highway
b. the jail house
c. the empty bed

Bad places:
a. Nordstrom's
b. Gallery openings
c. Weekend in the Hamptons

11. No one will believe it's the blues if you wear a suit, unless you happen to be an old black man.

12. Do you have the right to sing the blues?

Yes, if:
a. your first name is a southern state--like Georgia
b. you're blind
c. you shot a man in Memphis.
d. you can't be satisfied.

No, if:
a. you once were blind but now can see.
b. you're deaf
c. you have a trust fund.

13. Neither Julio Iglesias nor Barbra Streisand can sing the blues.

14. If you ask for water and baby gives you gasoline, it's the blues.
Other blues beverages are:
a. wine
b. Irish whiskey
c. muddy water

Blues beverages are NOT:
a. Any mixed drink, especially those with a straw
b. Any wine kosher for Passover
c. Yoo Hoo (all flavors)
d. Any drink with an umbrella in it

15. If it occurs in a cheap motel or a shotgun shack, it's blues death. Stabbed in the back by a jealous lover is a great blues way to die. So is the electric chair, substance abuse, or being denied treatment in an emergency room. It is not a blues death, if you die during a liposuction treatment or through complications with rhinoplasty.

16. Some Blues names for Women:
a. Sadie
b. Big Mama
c. Bessie

17. Some Blues Names for Men:
a. Joe
b. Willie
c. Little Willie
d. Lightning

Persons with names like Chad, Skippy, Sidney, Sierra, Sequoia, or Tiffany will not be permitted to sing the blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis.

17B. Other Blues Names (Starter Kit)
a. Name of Physical infirmity (Blind, Cripple, Asthmatic)
b. First name (see above) or name of fruit (Lemon, Lime, Kiwi)
c. Last Name of President (Jefferson, Johnson, Fillmore, etc.)
Feel free to mix and match.
_________________
"We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance."
~Japanese Proverb

[Nicky]

I was lying in my sick bed feeling pretty sorry for myself, but you've just brought a smile to my face SJ ...... That second post is great fun

The first post raises some excellent points, the most important of which for me is this:

[Southern Jiver]

Sorry to hear you are poorly, Nicky...get better soon. Maybe, once you are on your feet again, you should try one of RichardP's and Heather's Blues classes at Bramshaw on the third Thursday of each month. I have done a couple and enjoyed them. However, it will take a lot more than that to get me "dancing the blues" I suspect.
_________________
"We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance."
~Japanese Proverb

[shakira]

The other evening, some one asked me what 'Blues' dancing was, i couldn't explain it properly as i only know how it makes you feel when a great blues tune comes on.

(When i remember who it was that asked me ), i shall tell them to check out this Forum for SJ's perfect description!

[shakira]

... and in answer to Nicky's question (haven't mastered the quote thing yet) I wouldn't imagine you could if you're not feeling it

Get well soon!

[lilblue]

I am starting (I think) to get a handle on blues, for me it has to be with a partner I trust (currently consisting of about 3 guys!!) to a song I like. The song being the key.

At the last Bramshaw, a slow song that I like was played and I actually rather enjoyed dancing to it. I, however, am not a fan of the afore mentioned 'I shot my dog, da dum da dum' music (excellent post!) - I don't feel it (as Nicky and Shakira said) and since a lot of music played for blues is along these lines (or seemed to be at Verwood) that may explain why I don't love the blues... More variety in blues tunes please! I might even dance to them. Maybe.

[Jiveonaut]

Very interesting thread. My 2 pennies......

I think that Blues dancing as it is manifesting itself in the UK (in my experience, which is a bit limited) is hardly related to the good stuff that SJ mentions in his first post at all.

Most, but not all Blues dancers, ( and by that I will mean people who dance blues at weekenders, blues event like Utopia, the last thirty mins at Minstead etc from now on) experience will be in modern jive. What they will have seen is people dancing to slow music in a fashion that looks a lot like MJ but isn't. Its slowed down, moves can last much longer than perhaps the 16 beats of the longest move in MJ but contain much less movement and yet doesn't look like the slow MJ that they do, which looks a bit like dancing in zero gravity. The moves seem very same-y, often repetitive, rather oo-er missus and sometimes just plain rude! Often nothing much at all seems to happen.

Blues in this context is I reckon a different dance than MJ, because its intent is different. I do agree with the statement in SJs first post that blues "...enables intense individuality in expressing the music, emphasizing that the music, not the dancer, leads the dance; the dancer is simply the interpreter..." In other words, rather than banging out moves to a track, the lead is attempting to follow (!) the music and do moves appropriate to what he is hearing, rather than bang out his repetoire of moves willy nilly, and the follower is attempting to interpret the moves that she is being given and the music at the same time. Breaks, pauses, flourishes etc may all feature in much greater quatities than in a straight MJ dance.

This is really where it differs from MJ. Blues dancing is an attempt by the dancers to express "dance concepts such as simplicity, clarity, creativity, expression, intensity, and musical and emotional interpretation". This is possible in a variety of other dances as well, including MJ, but in MJ, as it is predominantly taught, the purpose is to get people dancing and all the other good stuff follows, whereas blues dancing tries to install its technicalities and theories from the off, with a strange side effect that it can come over as slow MJ, because unless you listen to the teacher, assuming he/she's any good, you miss the detail that is part and parcel of blues but that you can avoid in MJ but still get quite handy at it.

Rhumba is perhaps the obvious other form of slow, sensual dance. And its here that I disagree that blues , in the context I outlined above, has its roots in all that 'deep south of America' stuff. Blues may well do, but blues dancing here really doesn't. Why? Because, once it took off over here it gained a life of its own and for most people has hardly anything to do with it in its trad 'boom boom boom boom" form, no one here has ever heard of the "Slow Drag" and the "Fishtail" and an awful lot of people don't actually like blues music. If Blues dancing in its form here had been called "Modern Rhumba", would everyone agree with that title, would there be articles on its cultural roots being from where-ever (Cuba via 'High Society' and SCD) and would it be danced to the SAME music as you would hear now in a Weekender's Blues room? I think the answer is yes.

Blues music does of course feature in many of these events, quite right too, but a MASSIVE variety of other music does too. What links these musical styles is their tempo (usually slow to medium slow ish) and the musicality within these tracks. The tracks do often have a lot of breaks, quiet bits, loud bits etc, and seemingly more than say the latest top 40 hit which is three minutes of the same stuff with only the singer providing any variation. This is in my mind why more experienced dancers are migrating towards Blues from MJ, as there is more to listen to; more to dance to.

Its not the greatest spectator dance, but it is a great dance. However, all that good stuff about "quality of movement" applies to EVERY other kind of dance, including MJ. We've all danced with complete beginners or Hamfisted horsepower merchants who either don't know it or don't get it. However, (hopefully) we've all come out of an MJ dance going wow, not because it was done at a million miles an hour or because that humungous lift led to a near death experience, but because our partner led or followed us in such a way, to the music, that the dance itself, not the moves, actually triggered an emotional response (the wow). Blues is a way of emphasising the quality of the lead/follow to try and (a) get that to happen more often and (b) to music that de-emphasises the need to 'do moves' and increases the possibility that the movement, pared down as it will be for a slower track, will create a wow moment, aided and abetted by the fact that it IS a closer and more personal dance than say, MJ-ing to Candyman would be.

As such therefore it is a surprisingly technical and precise dance, as each half beat (ie 1 AND 2 AND 3) can count, whereas in MJ its usually 1 and 2 and 3, though not necessarily....), and culmunitively this is what gives it its feeling. It requires concentration from both parties, and an engagement to listen to each others movements in such a way that each partner can compliment the other. As you can tell by my burbling, its quite hard to describe: Nicky and Shakira's comments are spot on, I'm in that camp as well. If your dancing is of a standard where you hang on, you bounce your arms, you revolve, you do your own thing, then I'm afraid that you won't get or like Blues dancing. Its a very quiet dance and if you can't/don't listen, or 'understand' what your partner is asking, then you won't hear and so won't be able to do it. That is the quality bit. I'd suggest an MJ-er after a few blues dances is also a better MJ-er, because the principles crossover enormously. And of course ultimately dancing of any kind is not about "engineering" terms but are an art form. Art is about emotion ultimately, and its the potential for Blues to provide an emotional response to the music through the connection of the dancers dancing with themselves, each other AND the music that gives people a big wow. Its also quite possible to do that to MJ as well.

Lilblue is also right - the song is the key, as if one or other of the partners don't like it, then while you may have a good dance you won't get a wow dance. I prefer slow swing a la Sinatra's Songs for Swinging Lovers album to "My wife left me, a bird crapped on my hat" type songs. And its not just lilblue and I who think this, and not just for Blues or MJ. Listen to the pros on SCD. On Claudia's sofa they all say the music is the important thing, and everything else comes from that. Get on Iplayer and watch Tuesday 24th November's SCD ITT, and listen to Vincent fess up that the music didn't do it for him and thats why his choreography for the salsa blew and was picked up on by the judges last Saturday.

Trust is also important - for a blues (or an MJ dance for that matter)dance to really deliver that wow both sides have to consent to allowing the other into each other's space, to listen and adapt to each others movements, to relax because they'e confident the other party isn't getting their jollies instead, and so allow each other to dance WITH each other but TO the music. Its jolly hard, requires a lot of self confidence (and amazingly enough lots of dancers, me included, can lack that.) and for me at least is easier with people I already know.

IF you are lucky enough to get all of the above - the music, the partner, the moves, the space and whatever else makes a dance special for you, then you will get a wow , and a helluva wow, from a dance that, from the outside looks either unimpressive or salacious. And to be honest, those doing the "get a room" moves in a blues room, much like those who do huge lifts or drops in an MJ room, probably won't get that. The sexiest organ on a human body is the brain, and if you can connect to that, even for 3 mins, then the wow is quite, quite amazing.

Thats turned into about 40 quid, sorry! Final point is that SJ's second post made me laugh, is spot on, and covers most of the reasons why I don't like blues music!
_________________
Words are good, but hens lay eggs.

[Chrissim]

I wasn't sure I was going to read all of that, but after that last paragraph, Wow I think I fancy a cigarette.

[Southern Jiver]

Phew, I read all the way through that, Jiveonaut and I'm sure that's a pretty good synopsis of what makes Blues dancing special. However, I personally get more embarrassment than "wow" factor from the limited Blues dancing that I have tried so far. I do take your points about trust and comfort with someone but that takes time. My particular "wow" factor comes from a MJ dance where the rapport is so good that it's not so much choosing what moves to do next, more they sort of come on their own accord and there is a heightened, non-verbal connection with your partner which leaves you both going "wow" at the end of the dance. If I can get just one of those type of dances at a freestyle, that makes my night. Of course, it does depend on the partner and the music to make it all special.
_________________
"We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance."
~Japanese Proverb

[Boogie Boy]

I just wanted to reply to Nicky's post from the sick bed. (Hope you're felling better by the way.)

I'm a newcomer to Blues dance, having done a couple of workshops and attempted some freestlye at the Hub, and agree about the difficulty of teaching how to feel the music. But it was hearing that music and desparately wanting to dance to it that got me started. I think it's a three-stage process - learn the moves, dance the moves, and then pick up on the feel of the music and perform the moves.

Yes Nicky I also agree about wanting to be inspired by the music to get the best from a dance. It has to make you want to get up and boogie. So, being asked to dance when the music makes me want to sit out... 3 options: 1. just say no. Not an option. 2. Dance by numbers and hope it finishes soon. 3. And this works best for me, try to make the dance as much fun as possible for my dance partner. Whoops that's not about blues is it? Sorry, well it is my first post!

So get out that sick bed an strut yo stuff honey chil!

[Nicky]

Welcome to The Forum Boogie Boy!

When I first entered a Blues Room, I made a hasty exit as soon as I was approached for a dance, simply because I didnt want to make a fool of myself. I loved the music, but hadn't a clue how to dance to it. A couple of drinks later and I was eventually coaxed up for a dance. The biggest barrier for me was getting rid of my own fears and inhibitions

Jiveonaut, your post made very interesting reading. My experience of Blues is very limited, and as such I can only try to explain how I feel about Blues dancing.

Firstly, I agree that what most of us so loosely refer to as Blues dancing and Blues music, is in fact very far removed from its origins. Slower, more chilled music would seem to be the order of the day in most Blues Rooms; music which is more familiar to us than the original 'true Blues' music.

Aside from obviously having to like the piece of music thats being played, connection is the most important factor for me, not just in Blues but in any kind of dance. Whether or not my dance partner is known to me is totally irrelevant, in fact i've had some wonderful dances with complete strangers. Its impossible to explain how or why, but sometimes something just clicks, and its as if there is some kind of telepathic link between us. Each of us seems to know what the other is going to do.... Instict I guess, but its pure magic!

Jiveonaut wrote:

[Mops]

Nicky Said:

[shakira]

I enjoyed reading your 40 quids worth Jiveonaut

I particularly agree with the part you where you say that the music, partner, moves, space etc, for those 3 mins can be a 'wow' dance whatever dance you're doing.... so true

[Elliott]

I am a newbie in both the blues and Argentine tango and I am finding they have more in common than I ever imagined. They are both intimate, close hold dances where you need to be right inside each other's space. They both rely on musical interpretation far more than any set moves (I think this OUGHT to be true of modern jive too, but sadly it often isn't.) But the key - and joyous - similarity is that, when it goes right, your bodies move completely as one. I find this delightful and exhilarating to the point that it makes me laugh out loud (which, in turns, can take some explaining!)

At the moment I am kind of between dances.... not good enough at tango to take part in milongas... not really good enough at blues either but done enough to risk asking for dances - when I can find a venue which is sadly rare. And, having tasted the wine and caviar of these two dances, not really getting the old pleasure from the beer and chips of modern jive any more.